Episode Summary
Imagine being able to attend a bold and beautiful theater performance that gives voice to a path you might know all too well, a path of healing from the impacts of violence or trauma. Imagine what that might feel like in your core, to see someone go on a journey similar to yours and get to the other side of it. (This is part 2 of a 2-part interview with Alina Zievakova of ProEnglish Theatre of Ukraine.)
Episode Resources
→ Blooming - Watch the Performance (47:49)
https://www.scenesaver.co.uk/production/bloom-in-violence/
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→ Part 1 of This Interview: https://ever-changing.net/episodes/s5-e3-blooming-amidst-the-war-pt-1
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Shame Piñata is hosted by Ritual Artist Colleen Thomas, a Certified Meditation and Mindfulness teacher who helps people make sense of life through ceremony. Music by Terry Hughes.
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Full Transcript
Zievakova: Women come at different stages of going through their own trauma and some come saying that, “I'm so glad that I am at the end of the journey now. I came through all this way and you have shown it to me, how I have done it actually, and now I can realize it.” Or there are women who are just at the beginning and it's usually tough for them seeing the show, but at the same time, it does give this, you know, small push of hope if I can call it this way, that at least you're not alone and at least there are people around who are ready to help and ready to be there for you.
Imagine being able to attend a bold and beautiful theater performance that gives voice to a path you might know all too well, a path of healing from the impacts of violence or trauma. Imagine what that might feel like in your core, to see someone go on a journey similar to yours and get to the other side of it. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions.
If you joined us for last month’s episode, you heard all about a unique theatrical performance that honors the journey of finding a way forward after trauma or violence. Ukrainian film and theater actress Alina Zievakova was our guide for that conversation. She told us about a show called Blooming, produced by ProEnglish Theatre of Ukraine. Blooming was created by three women: Alina, who is the lead in the show, Jasmine Sotelo, the choreographer who also appears onstage, and director Anabell Ramirez.
It all began right after russia’s full-scale invasion, when Alina and Anabell decided to volunteer their time to work as fixers. That meant that they accompanied foreign journalists who were in Ukraine documenting war crimes. In that role they witnessed some intense stories of gender-based violence and both felt very strongly that they needed to do something with all of the knowledge they gained through hearing those stories. And since theater was their strongest instrument, they decided to create a performance about it. Today I’m happy to welcome Alina back to tell us more about Blooming. We’ll touch on the uniquely Ukrainian symbolism in the show, how the show was received by the survivors who attended, and we’ll also explore the cultural differences that came up during the show’s European tour. Here’s a bit more now of our interview.
Thomas: I have a question I'd love to switch gears and ask you, which is, if there are any, what are some of the uniquely Ukrainian elements in the show?
Zievakova: Sure, there are a couple. So you can see on the poster, there's a hand and there is a little embroidery on it and this is actually what we do during this show. Jasmine is painting my hand. And this painting is supposed to symbolize this embroidery that is traditional to Ukraine, that is usually put on the shirts and people are wearing it on special occasions on holidays. But lately since our… you know nationality, and our survival is crucial for us, a lot of people just wear it everyday and it has become a fashion trend to incorporate those embroidery into, I don't know, hoodies and t-shirts and whatever, just regular clothes, which I found cool. I own couple of those. [LAUGHS] But yeah, for us, it's like… it's also you know, kind of symbolic that she does it on my wrist where there is… there are veins and it also feels like you know it's in my blood, in your blood. And it also kind of transcends and connects both the nationality aspect of it and cultural Ukrainian aspect of it with the broader or much deeper sense of… because she does it you… also before the really strong emotional moment in the performance and it feels like initiation as well. And it also the lights turns red and the Ukrainian song that starts at the moment, the first words of the song says крові, which means blood, give me blood. And yeah, this is one of them. And also while the song is in Ukrainian and there are a couple of moments when Jasmine's character speaks Ukrainian and they are kind of you know, spells somehow, even though it's not supposed to be, but they fit and they sound… and I guess they were more of like a prayer more of like this, half pagan, half Christian which is very broadly how our culture is based on there are both pagan elements and Christian elements. She's also whispering it so it sounds like this healing spell in some way. And the fun fact is that, well, the book itself, the Daughter, it's rather rough, rather, you know, masculine energy book about the start of the war actually in 2014 in Donbas, and the main character is a woman who becomes a volunteer for the armed forces. And the… what surprised us a lot is this excerpt that we have you know, of this kind of magical stuff are from there so, she… in the hardest moments of her life, she does address these powers that are you know… The last monologue of the performance is that… “the truth is on your side, your kith and kin are on your side, the dead or on your side and the unborn too” So there's this you know, tribal almost power that we possess and if you access it, there is nothing that in the world that can beat you. And this is kind of one of the important messages that we incorporate it into performance. And we wanted to pass it along as much as possible to men, women. It doesn't matter in this case, to humans. And to give this extra support whenever it's needed.
Thomas: Do you know if any of the survivors that you worked with, when you were first in the field have gotten to see the performance?
Zievakova: Not that I'm aware of. But you know, the horrifying and at the same time, very important fact is that, after every performance survivors come to us and tell us that thank you so much for telling the story in such a way. I felt seen, I felt heard, I felt that I'm not alone. And they felt like there is a way out. Or they're… Women come at different stages of going through their own trauma and some come saying that, “I'm so glad that I am at the end of the journey now. I came through all this way and you have shown it to me, how I have done it actually, and now I can realize it,” or there are women who are just at the beginning. And it's usually tough for them seeing the show, but at the same time, it does give this, you know, small push of hope, if I can call it this way, that at least you're not alone and at least there are people around who are ready to help and ready to be there for you.
Thomas: Yeah, and I would imagine people who can step into it, who are stepping into it on stage who are representing it, who are… who are not afraid of it, who are not frozen by it, who have movement within it, all of those pieces.
Zievakova: And not only movement within it, but it's a validation of absolutely different states of it of this nonlinear process. And people usually again, at least in Ukraine, of what I can see, or what I can judge, people are afraid to show you know, quote unquote, negative emotions, to show aggression, grief, struggle... You always have to… as if you always have to put a mask and pretend that, “Everything is fine, I'm just going through it, I'm not going to address it, I'm shoveling it under the carpet.” And that's what I personally find very important in the show is that any of the states is fine and okay… and any one of us can be in the state and we can still be us and we can be beautiful in that. And that is one of the, I guess, greatest and most important lessons I have learned on my personal journey and what I find crucial to share in anything I do.
Thomas: Absolutely. And did you go through any rites of passage, as… personally or professionally as you've been working with the show?
Zievakova: I guess for me it also is kind of a special closure of my own experience with violence. And it has been such a special way to address it through art. And I'm so lucky to have this instrument that I have to transform the pain into art. And I guess that would be it because one of the monologues is written by me in the show and I find it very special to have this privilege and opportunity to share it and to… to feel how it resonates with others which also has been absolutely opening. And again, whenever we talk about violence and survivors and there is a lot of shame, hence we are in Shame Piñata podcast. It was so important for me to share what I feel and thus to, again to validate, to show that there is no place for shame in such deep experiences.
[MUSIC]
Thomas: So what did we not touch on that you think it’s important to mention?
Zievakova: I guess I would like to mention the difference in perception because it's kind of curious with the different countries. It's interesting that whenever we perform it in Ukraine, people tend to laugh more easily, because there are a couple of… you know, relieving, funny moments, improvisation moments in the show. And for us, it also was crucial to include something like that so the show does not feel too overwhelming and too hard to process. And well, there are some specific cultural codes. Coming back to the question of the you know, specific Ukrainian references, there is a monologue about food and there is a mention of borsch which is a traditional Ukrainian dish and people here usually tend to react on it because they know very well what it is about. And yeah… And in general, it's so curious as just, you know, anthropological, sociological observation whenever we were going through and touring through countries, especially at the very beginning, somewhere in the summer of 2022, autumn… people were so afraid to laugh, because… I also find it fascinating, because, again, whenever we're talking about harsh topics, like trauma, violence, grief, it's also as far as I can observe, those topics are not super easy to address. And it is such a joy when people do laugh, when even though you know, the contexts or cultural contexts are different, but some things are universally, you know, funny, and we can share that and laugh it out together. And that has been great because, for us, it is crucial not to be perceived only as a victim, you know, we are suffering and we're being attacked, but also, as you know, strong, courageous humans. And a nation that you know, can fight back and sometimes to laugh it out is a way to resist, is a way to fight back. So now it has been really cool to see. And in general, it's interesting that again, when we were just starting it in Kyiv, and whenever we perform in here… it depends, of course, but usually the audience would be more tense than in countries abroad, especially during the you know, harsh moments, during the rather dramatic moments of the show. And in the contrast, whenever we are in the countries of the European Union or the countries of the Northern Europe, they tend to be… well, they do acknowledge that dramaticness of the moment or the harshness, but they seem to, to have a more… more adjusted way to talk about it. So it feels okay to bring up these topics and to discuss them even though it's not easy. And even we have a very contrast and vivid example in Sweden. We were in Stockholm this September. And we had two shows, one with Ukrainian audience because we have been hosted by a Ukrainian organization and they have brought a lot of their guys just to, you know, attend the show. And the second show was mostly Swedish audience or international audience that attendance on the festival. And you can… you can feel the energy the difference and well, it is long journey and we are happy to contribute in any way we can to to make shifts in that regard.
Thomas: So could you say more about what was the difference between those two performances from the audience?
Zievakova: So again, with Ukrainian audience here or there… especially there… the Ukrainian refugees or people who have moved even prior to full scale invasion, they, they feel more tense because there is this survivor's guilt, there is this desire to help, but at the same time being far away and being in the safety also that is a huge contributor of guilt and of this survivor's guilt. And, you know, people tend to… what I have noticed personally, tend to perceive the news, even more serious or to over-work themselves on the volunteer field more, because they feel that they need to, you know, over-capacitate themselves in order to… to contribute. And it's interesting that on the contrary, people in Ukraine, whenever I don't know the… we have a missile attack or something happens, we tend to perceive it lightly because it, first of all, it is already engraved and incorporated into our routine, our reality. But at the same time, we need to, otherwise we won't be able to handle it every time. And it's interesting that the same happens with for example, with us and with people who are on the front line, we tend to perceive what is happening there, of course, differently than the people who are in action. And that's why I guess also the humor is… sometimes very dark one… is born. And yeah, it's an interesting, also, contrast and difference.
Thomas: I appreciate you saying that. It's like the layers of how close we are to a tragedy or to a very hard experience. And I think I see myself in the survivor's guilt piece, even though I'm not a Ukrainian refugee. But, I think I recognize myself in there somehow.
Zievakova: And that's why I think it's so… it's super important to talk about it and to raise it and to just to make sure that we all have our role and the be… the distance from the epicenter of advance has no difference in impact. It all is, you know, one of my favorite metaphors is that we all are drops of the ocean. And each one each of these drops is crucial for the ocean to function.
Thomas: Yes, well said. Wow. Well, I'm so grateful to have had this time to talk to you and to get to… get to share you with the word, with… with my little corner of the world.
Zievakova: Thank you so much. It is absolutely incredible and exciting to be a part of the show.
You don’t have to go to the basement of ProEnglish Theatre of Ukraine to see Blooming, and you don’t need to wait until it comes to your town on tour. You can see it online right now. Find the link in the show notes. Thank you for joining us for this important conversation today. I’ll leave you with pretty much the only thing I can think to say… Слава Україні.
Alina Zievakova is a film and theatre actress and acting coach from Ukraine. She premiered as a female lead in the film "Rhino" at the Venice Film Festival. However, since the February 24, 2022 russian full-scale war in Ukraine, she has been acting in socially-relevant theatre pieces and creating stress-relief workshops.
Our music is by Terry Hughes. Find us on YouTube, IG and X at shamepinata. And subscribe to the show on your favorite player. Also be sure to check out our new 10-part series 10 Minutes for Your Heart, Meditations for Ukrainians. Find it a 10minutesforyourheart.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.
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